gay marriage and 13th article of faith

topic posted Wed, June 11, 2008 - 11:10 AM by  justin
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how do you think the church will deal with the fact that it is legal to have a same sex marriage?
posted by:
justin
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

    Wed, June 11, 2008 - 11:50 AM
    It's been legal in other states for a while. Just 'cause California is added to the group, the church isn't going to change. They might send out another one of those general, over-the-pulpit announcements about our firm belief in heterosexuality. And just because something is within legal bounds doesn't mean it's within the Lord's bounds. It's legal in Nevada to gamble (and in most other states if you include the lottery). That doesn't mean I'm a member in good standing if I gamble but only if I live in Nevada.
    • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

      Thu, June 12, 2008 - 12:41 AM
      The Bible is pretty literal when it comes to marriage regardless of how poluted or convoluted people want to percieve the law or change them. Regardless of our religious affiliations if one is truly Christian and follows the dictates of the Bible where it pertains to what God has set forth for us, we would follow that to the letter.. not try to rearrange it to suit our own needs or wants.

      The Bible is very clear that God does not approve of gay relationships..thats why He created Adam and Eve...not Adam and Steve.. or Amy and Eve..
      • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

        Thu, June 12, 2008 - 7:38 PM
        Oh Thing the freed me from the chuch and religion, was coming to "Know" that Adam and Eve are fiction! For all those years I prayed if the Bible was true or not, and if it was then the Book of Mormon may well be too. Well after many years One got their answer. The Bible is not a true history book, thus neither is the Book of Mormon!

        I just got back from Hawaii, where you see living proof of the world still storming and forming. It was not done in six days!

        So now the law has evolved, as has mankind. Homosexuality is no longer wrong. In fact there in now more proof, too prove the sexuality is decided by a women's hormones during pregnancy. So this is innate, an act of god if you like......

        I love it, the Church always feel back on, well it's against the law anyway. Now this is being taken away from them as a tool to use....

        Instead of beating up homosexuals, go beet up their vessel/mum.
        • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

          Fri, June 13, 2008 - 6:58 AM
          1st - That didn't come across as very literate.
          2nd - If you're going for a scientific perspective, you still can't prove that homosexuality is an evolution. It weeds itself out by the simple fact that it cannot breed.

          Plain and simple, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about living life to the fullest potential for receiving joy. Having a family where love and trust blossom can provide that. I cannot express enough how wonderful it felt to have my own daughter learn to give me a hug when she was around a year and a half. The church does not need to fall back on quick lines like "There was not Adam and Steve." It just isn't the best path to happiness. It's a fear-based lifestyle focussed on a singular feeling of self-gratification.
          • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

            Fri, June 13, 2008 - 4:33 PM
            The world is already in trouble from overpopulation. Not enough food to feed us all, or enough homes to house us all. gees imagine the trouble we would all be in if we all breed.

            Oh section 132 of the D and C.............

            plus since One divorced his family and will never wed, nor breed. There just is no temple work for One too do!

            OMG. Can you imagine the outcry, if the gay community breed all the misery that the str8 community breeds.

            I have meet many a unhappy family with in the LDS church, because of the church, and the fact it is being forced onto children, whom don't want a bar of it. I have meet many an unhappy parent whom is frustrated as a parent and disappointed, because their child has not lived up to their, or the church's expectations.

            I am so happy I am in middle age, and am free of such things.
      • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

        Fri, June 13, 2008 - 4:10 PM
        the reason why i bring up the "following that laws of the land" is because technicaly, polygamy is still allowed in the mormon doctrine. It is possible to be sealed to more than one woman even today!!

        only the stipulation is the first wife must be dead, lol!! but in the afterlife, thats 2 hot elderly babes waiting for you.

        Gay marriage also creates a technical loophole for legitimizing breakoff lds polygamy groups. how can you stop a polygamist from having one wife, but then having two more wives marry each other. they can live under the same roof and have legal protection.


        • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

          Fri, June 13, 2008 - 5:02 PM
          There is a big difference between Polyamory and gay/lesbian relationships. Just because a man has more then one wife does not mean that the wives will have a sexually based relationship. what it does mean is that both genders have enough unselfish love to incorporate more then one person in their marriage.. or not as some cases are.

          Personally what ppl do is their own business... however when it pertains to Biblical Law it is not only frowned upon, but it is punishable by death..Or was till the laws were changed..

          Gay/Lesbianism has been around since there have been more ppl of the same sex to experiment with.. The Greeks/Romans and many cultures were filled with this type of relationships.. It doesn't make it right nor does it make it morally correct when practicing what Jesus taught and what the very foundations of Christianity is based on.
          • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

            Fri, June 13, 2008 - 5:41 PM
            Gyps. Jesus is a myth. if there was a man named Jesus, then he was just a man whom did good deeds. he was not the son of a god! Gees such a waisted youth One had, going to chuch and all those meetings, and lost weekends. waiting to know the truth. Riesling over my sexuality.

            it was not until One turned 30. to start to be free, and live my life. I now know religion is nothing more than a life style choice, and sexuality is not. Now One may well be a fag. But One has not had sexual contact for many years. Still One awaits for the Church to excommunicate me. I've sent off my letter last September, and talked to Bishope. Should of told him I am a ragging slut. maybe he would of acted on my wish to be released from this American cult, that has no place in Australia.

            Oh the law once told us the world was flat. This law as many in days gone bye where wrong.

            Think of the outcry if the gay community breed all the misery, that the heteros breed.

            How religion poised everything.

            Oh i don't need religion to have morals, or to be good. But while people fear death, there will always be a need for religion......
          • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

            Sat, June 14, 2008 - 8:18 AM
            gypsy:
            Personally what ppl do is their own business... however when it pertains to Biblical Law it is not only frowned upon, but it is punishable by death..Or was till the laws were changed..

            so are you saying you believe that biblical law should be more closely followed? and capital punishment used for treating homosexuality?

            in a polygamous marriage in the mormon faith, everyone is wed together, impossible to do in any state currently. with a powerfull gay marriage legal protection, polygamous sects can have legitimate households.

            polygamous mariages create inequality when followed by more that a few people, and the population explosion is amazing. gay lesbian couples live their lives, sometimes have children.
            • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

              Sat, June 14, 2008 - 3:59 PM
              What ppl do is their own business, yes.. And how they answer to God when they cross over is their own business.

              I believe that Biblical Law should supercede the law of the land if one is going to profess to be Christian. Biblical Law does not pertain to any faith that does not believe in the Bible and where the entire religious foundations are based on the Biblical teachings.

              If a person is going to attach themselves to a religion or following of a certain faith, then it should follow that that person should adhere to the religious boundaries set forth by that religion. Other wise if a person wants only to change the foundational laws set forth to suite their own behavoir patterns and lifestyle in order to justify it, then why profess to be part of that group at all? Go find or found a religion that pertains to whatever lifestyle is right is deemed acceptable.

              The Bible is very clear as to what it condones and what it does not.

              If I were muslim, which I am not, I would follow the dictates of what muslims believe in not join them and try to change the very foundations of the basis of their beleifs because I only want to accept part of it as it doesn't suit me to accpept all of it.

              I do NOT for one milisecond or less believe that Jesus is a myth. But what I believe is opened for debate here.

              All I'm saying is that if a person is going to attach themselves to a religious and/or cultural belief then follow the dictates there of.

              The 10 commandments clearly states that

              1. 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

              The law of the land says I can worship any god I want to .. .its freedom of religion. In the States.

              2. 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

              The law of the land could care less.. If I want to worship a tree, a piece of clay molded into any desired form, it is perfectly acceptable.

              3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain

              Like anyone would care what language I use these days...

              4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

              Get real.. the law of the land doesn't get involved in this either.. there is no law that says I have to take a day off.. If I want to work 7 days a week I am considered a workaholic and over productive.. its looked upon as a positive thing.

              5. Honor your father and your mother The law of the land could care less how I treat my mother or father unless there's abuse involved.

              6. You shall not murder This one there is a penalty for within the laws of the land, however depending on circumstances, the penalty is not too harsh. No where near as harsh as God's penalty.

              7. 'You shall not commit adultery How many US leaders do you think this would affect if the law of the land got involved with this? Clinton would be in more trouble then he is now.. So would many of the past presidents that ppl didn't know or care what they did with their private lifes.. look at the Kenedys.. thats just the presidents.. how many congress, senators, trickle downward and keep going all the way down to poor little John doe.. The law of the land has no jurisdiction over this Biblical law set forth by God Himself.

              8. 'You shall not steal Its only stealing if you're too poor to embezzle. Depending on how rich one is, it seems its not considered stealing.. However, the law of the land does set forth a punishment for this crime.. That makes two of Gods laws that mankind seems necessary to punish a person for committing.

              9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. The only time this is a crime is when a person is sitting in the hot seat in a court of law. .then its a crime.. other wise. it doesn't matter who a person "bears false witness" to. The law doesn't seem concerned about this one either.

              10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's

              How much do you think the law of the land would integrate themselves in this one? Not much.. unless you stole it but that would make it a different commandment.

              What I'm getting at is that God has set forth a minimum of 10 laws for Christians to follow. That is what Christianity is all about. It is based on the 10 commandmens and the Bible. There are many denominations of Christianity, but they all follow these two foundations.

              Just because the law of the land says its ok for a person to do something like lie, covet, worship anything or anyone, etc.. doesn't mean its right in the eyes of God.

              God has told us thru the Bible that same sex relationships are something He doesn't like and will not tolerate. Just because the law of the land states that same sex marriages are ok, doesn't make them ok with God. If two ppl want to get married and are the same sex.. thats their business.. however, if they believe the Christian way, then when they go to heaven and face God, they will have to answer to Him.





              • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

                Sat, June 14, 2008 - 5:29 PM
                Gyps NO_ONE is born religious, this is a choice they make somewhere in life. what in the hell does an 8 year old know. They agree to baptism, under their parents influence/force.. So there is no such thing as a Mormon child, or a catholic child, or a Muslim child, as they go to the chuch under influence of family, and in some cases by law.

                So the laws of the bible, have no place in the laws of the land, as not all of us grow up to make the lifestyle choice to be religious.

                But.......If you do make the lifestyle choice to be religious you should try too live by the laws of your religion. But the laws of the land come first.

                But then you can show a christian who believes that the earth is only a few thousand years old,, hared core proof that the earth is billions of years old, and still they remained blind to the truth.

                Homosexuality is only wrong because religion says so. religion is man made, and sexuality is determined by the mother, and is not a choice.... But to breed, and be religious is a choice......

                Sexuality is innate, and not a choice! Religion is a lifestyle choice, and nothing more...... Yet religious people seem to think the rules of their private club, should be forced on us all.

                One does not hate Mormonism. But it is another part of Americanism that is polluting the rest of the world, like feminism, american fast food chains, and their armies..

                Sorry But mormonism has no place in Oz. But the General Authorities seem to think they have a right to send out their foot solders to Oz, as Oz is full of foreigners, that they can convert, and take Mormonism home to China or wherever with them.

                Sorry religion is a lifestyle choice.

                O'l Joseph smith was a dirty soul, whom worked he way around society's rules to only have one wife, when he wanted many women. But since religions influence on the laws of the land stopped this, he started his own religion, and wrote section 132 of the D&C to suit his very won perversion. Now the church tries too fob this off as a welfare system.

                Sorry man was not made to be monogamist, as women are only able to produce offspring for a very short time, compared to man producing his sperm. man was made to have many, and not just one.
                • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

                  Tue, June 24, 2008 - 5:17 PM
                  Yes.. religion is a choice..

                  Regardless of whether what one's parents do, children at some point grow up to be able to make their own choices.

                  I will reiterate...if a person has chosen to become Christian, embrace all that Christianity has to offer, (this includes the Bible) then that individual is subject to Biblical law under the guidance of Christianity and Biblical law supercedes the law of the land as it is a Higer Law. The Bible, regardless of denomination affiliation, is the basis for Christianity. ALL Denominations believe in the Bible. That is the foundation and written documentation of the Christian religion. The Bible tells us how to live our lives according to God's will. It tells us how, if we choose to live according to God's will that we will be blessed, and what will happen if we do not.

                  If a person does not chose to be Christian, then so be it. That person does not have to adhere to any Biblical law put forth as that person has not attached themselves to the religion of being Christian.

                  We are all products of our parental influence, environment and own opinions. Patterson, I don't know how you were raised. From your posts, I take it you were raised in the church and strongly disagree with its convictions. Thats your decision.

                  The question was posed as to opinions what stand the church would take on gay marriages now that they are considered legal in the state of Ca. I do not forsee any other stance then what has been taken in the past on gay marriages. They are against Biblical Law in the eyes of God.

                  If a person is gay and feels the need for a ceremony with their respective partner, and that person feels that their lifestyle is right for them, then by all means.. I'm not the one to judge.. and far be it from me to even attempt to judge another person or their lifestyle.. However after reading the Bible, I can say that it is very clear and concise as to what God has to say on the subject.

                  <B> Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. <B> (It is very clear as to what this passage states.) This was the law from God to Moses.

                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

                    Tue, June 24, 2008 - 9:51 PM
                    being a cristian meens that you are a folower od criste and his teachings.

                    everything else is dependant on witch spesific religius sect you belong to.

                    ya, if you are going to take the preisthood then after that point you shouldn't have gay sex, but you should also respect the free agency of others, you should realise that by condeming and vilifieing and presuming to judge non-heterosexual peaple you are ther by religating them to the outskirts and dark places of our societys, laces wer the churches influence is at it's weakest and wer the chances of them finding ther peace woth god is greatly redused.

                    god didn't put us hear to see how efectivly we could use laws , punishments , and restrictions to force others to live a ritchis , ther was a dude that had that plan, but god didn't like that plan. if i remember corectly they had a bit of a spat over it. :)
                    • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

                      Thu, June 26, 2008 - 3:32 AM
                      ok, i'm not overly familiar with leviticus, so i am doing a little reaserch.

                      the gist of what i have reaserched here stronly sugests a whole heck of a lot of ambiguity

                      i'll include the important parts of hat i've read.

                      but ya, ther is Definivly a Lot of room for interpretation.

                      actualy it seems that based on context , that the pasage refered more to maried men having gay lovers, perhaps that it was a clerification that have sex with a man outside of your maraige was just as bad as having sex with a woman outside of maraige.

                      i'm not saying that that is definitly what it meens, i would have to pray a lot before i would presume to know what the passage meens.

                      but i think it is clear that the statment is Not a clear one.

                      as a mater of fact ther apears to be very little reference to lesbian relationships, it apears in fact that ther a few instances in witch tow hemen having slept together is somthing to disregarded as totaly irelivent to the womans virtue. i must admit i find that potential interpretation to be hilarius in it's potential implications.

                      also it never seemed to refer to the legal binding of the lifes of two men, just a potential sugestion that SEX between two men is uncooth, or dirty, or some such equivilently minor form of transgretion.

                      it also never seemed to refered at all to the idea of two men raising a child together, making a house together, or anything of the sort.



                      i'm not trying to convince anyone that dose not already believe it that gay maraig is ok,
                      i'm just trying to remind you that trying to force other peaple to live ther lives the way that you live yours is not the mormon way.
                      the mormon way (the way that i understand it)
                      is to concentrait first on making shure you live your life well, and ritchisly, and then to give the peaple around you as many chances as posible to see throo your example and throo your testimony that the way of life witch you have chosen is the rite path to serve god.
                      we are not however suposed to debase our selves by trying to exert our will (no matter how ritchs that will is) over others lifes.





                      ---------------------------------


                      Overview of Leviticus 18:22
                      "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." 8

                      This is a passage from the Mosaic Code that is often used to condemn homosexual behavior in general. In transliterated Hebrew, the verse is written: "V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vey eeshah toeyvah hee."

                      The first part of this verse is literally translated as "And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman" Many, probably most, theologians, Bible translations and biblical commentators agree that the verse is directed at men who engage in at least some form of anal sex with other men. But they do not agree on the full scope of the forbidden activities. For example: The Living Bible greatly widens the scope of the original Hebrew to include all homosexual acts by both men and women. They confuse the matter further by not differentiating between homosexual orientation and homosexual behavior. They render the first part of this verse as: "Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden."
                      On the other hand, many religious liberals have interpreted the beginning of this verse as referring only to sexual activities between two males during a Pagan temple ritual. If there were a liberal translation of the Bible, it might say "Ritual anal sex between two men in a Pagan temple is forbidden."

                      The second part of this verse explains what type of sin this transgression falls under. There are two types of sin in the Mosaic Code:
                      Moral sin is produced by rebellion against God. This seems to be the interpretation of most biblical translations imply when they translate the Hebrew "toeyvah" into English words such as "abomination," "enormous sin," or "detestable."
                      Ceremonial uncleanliness is caused by contact with a forbidden object or by engaging in a behavior which might be quite acceptable to non-Hebrews, but which was forbidden to the Children of Israel. Eating birds of prey, eating shellfish, cross breeding livestock, picking up sticks on a Saturday, planting a mixture of seeds in a field, and wearing clothing that is a blend of two textiles are examples of acts of ritual impurity which made a Child of Isreal unclean. These were not necessarily minor sins; some called for the death penalty.


                      The verse is, unfortunately, incomplete. Its precise meaning is unclear. The phrase "lay lyings" has no obvious interpretation. Attempts have been made to make sense out of the original Hebrew by inserting a short phrase into the verse. For example:

                      The Net Bible® translation 1 inserts two words to produce "And with a male you shall not lay [as the] lyings of a woman." A man must not have sexual intercourse with another man as he would normally have with a woman. i.e. anal intercourse between two men is not permitted. From this literal, word for word translation, they produce a smoother English version: "You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman."
                      An alternative translation would insert a different pair of words to produce: "And with a male you shall not lay [in the] lyings of a woman." That is, two men must not engage in sexual behavior on a woman's bed. Presumably, they must go elsewhere to have sex; a woman's bed was sacred and was to be reserved for heterosexual sex.


                      i'm not trying to convince anyone that dose not already believe it that gay maraig is ok,
                      i'm just trying to remind you that trying to force other peaple to live ther lives the way that you live yours is not the mormon way.
                      the mormon way (the way that i understand it)
                      is to concentrait first on making shure you live your life well, and ritchily, and then to give the peaple around you as many chances as posible to see throo your example and throo your testimony that the way of life witch you have chosen is the rite path to serve god.
                      we are not however suposed to debase our selves by trying to exert our will (no matter how ritchs that will is) over others lifes.


                      ------------------------


                    • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

                      Sat, July 12, 2008 - 5:12 PM
                      Well the only law One is answerable to, and lives under, is the law of the land.

                      When One talked to the Bishope about my resignation from the American cult of Mormonism. One talked about ones sexuality, and stated, if one was to have sex with another man. One is doing no wrong, as the law of the Land tells one so. The Bishope said. Yes but we are acting on a higher law.

                      Oh please. This is nothing more, than him putting his views on a pedestal.

                      The law of the land now say, I can take a husband, thus have sex with in the realm of marriage.

                      So their is no wrong with being a homosexual! Pluse if there is a God. Why did he make women to produce homosexual children?

                      Sexuality is not a choice for men, like religion is.

                      I can now have a husband, and sex within marriage. Now American cult has the right to tell me in Australia this is wrong.

                      Look at Joseph Smith. he was a very smart man, whom created his own cult, and Section 132 of the D&C to he could work his way around being a slut, whom wanted more than one women. In a time when religion said no to this, and still does. This also led to his death.

                      So the FLDS are the true original Church of the LDS. Main stream Mormonism is the new version created after JS death.

                      But yes if someone take on religion. They should live by the laws of the Bible. From the moment I knew that the bible was not true, thus nor could the Book of Mormon be. I dropped religion altogether.

                      I am now only answerable to the laws of the land!

                      But while people fear death, there will always be a need for religion, and the Mormons cover leaving your loved ones behind too, another fear of man...
                      • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

                        Sun, December 28, 2008 - 11:57 PM
                        Homosexuality is apsiloigical and emotional trauma. It is scientific fact that enlarged Thalmsu glands produce homosexual behaviors. This happens as a result of psysical toxicity. This is natural selection at it's finest.

                        Jsut becasue oen is unaware of a law higher than that of Babylon's finest does not preclude its existence of functionality! We are responsible for our actions.

                        We will face our creator and be judgeed by our choices in action we will judge ourselves. Perfection is my goal and I am striving everyday to serve as alight ofr our family to see teh light of Christ as hew would not judge just love everyone and command us to sin no more.
                        • Re: gay marriage and 13th article of faith

                          Sat, January 17, 2009 - 3:39 PM
                          Well when I die. I'm not expecting to meet my maker. If Id do. It will have nothing to do with an American born male who wrote a book.

                          As I'm an Aussie! Australian born, and the book of Mormon has nothing to do with me, or my country.

                          I live by the laws of the land of oz, and not by rules made by some old American guys.

                          I'm content with the way I live my everyday life. If I'm to be judged, this is what I will be judged on, and not how many times I go to church, or if I've been to the Temple. I now have no religion, and when I die. There is to be no service at all! Straight off to be cremated, are the rules for me.

                          Oh if Mormonism, had never of left the USA. I would never of come here.

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