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there was a bit of a protest that was supposed to happen when the letter from president monsoon was read on sunday to all the wards, did anyone walk out?
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 4:26 PMWell, since I was unable to attend . . . . I'm clueless!
What is this about?
Judith -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Wed, July 2, 2008 - 9:16 PMthis is about the ongoing issue of the LDS church being involved in politics. Some people feel that the mormon church should not be involved in politics.
There is an underlying issue with the gay marriage related to polygamy. Since there is no requirement to be a resident of california in order to receive a marriage licence, all states are supposed to recognize other states' marriage certificates.
Its relatively hard to prosecute polygamists, and having gay marriage legal makes for a loophole for polygamists. if gay marriage is legal, a polygamist can have three wives living under the same roof legaly. The 2nd and 3rd wives, who would be wed to each other, would be able to file taxes, have lots of kids, get medicare and public assistance.
perhaps i scould look into my hat with some rocks, this usually clarifies the spirit...
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Thu, July 3, 2008 - 5:55 AMwell, glad you clerified the issue for me unlike the other response, but i am dismayed to see that you arbitrarily desided to insult my religion with a claerly bigeted remark, it's realy not any difrent from insulting a jewish persons faith or the faith of a muslim it's all bigetry and by displaying it proudly you make your self apear to be a biget.
are you a biget ? i hate bitetry, stupid displays of bigetry are one of the prymay things that have driven thousands away from the church,
you have no right to critisise the bigetry of others until you sinceraly adress your own.
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Thu, July 3, 2008 - 8:36 AMPlease let me know how I have offended you, I am very sorry if I have.
also, I would like to know how bigotry has driven people from the LDS faith.
Thank you star for your understanding
justin -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Thu, July 3, 2008 - 4:52 PM"perhaps i scould look into my hat with some rocks, this usually clarifies the spirit... "
that was prety clearly to me a derogitory coment, somthing equivilent to making aa funny hat joke to a catholic, a burning bush joke to a jewish person, a turbane joke to a seek , or ven worse ( and in this case perhaps more of an appt simily) making a turban joke about a muslim. it's stupid a stupid insult, based on taking some minute cultural teatail out of context to make it seem insane or outlandish. it's school yard level form of insult, based in ignorance closmindednes or simple disrespect for somone elses beliefes and or way of life.
to answer your second question , althow the church, the religion, dose not suport rasism or sexism, or or any form of bigotry twards another human being, (in short , hate and discrimination are not doctrinal) individuals with in the church do still somtimes hold ther own personal prejudises and steriotys. often a member of the church wll run into such problems as , somone feeling uncomfortuble with ther child dating or being good freinds with somone of a difrent ethnisity or culture, somone making incorect asumptions about ther personality or moral integrity based on ther sexual orientation and or lifstyle choices. this isn't a product of our religion , a fanominon limited to us as a group , or i belive, actualy the way god intended it to be. usualy these atitudes are fownd more in the older more socialy insulated members of the church (much like the rest of american culture) these atitudes can often apear to a new member or non member or to a socialy insulated member (by witch i meen a person with a small social circle and or who dose not for whatever reason seek the opinions of several peaple when trying to understand / deel with a cultural or social problem) to be the overal opinions of the group, or to be somhow oficial stances of the church. these opinions however are far less comon and when present are usualy far less intence in the younger generation (much like the rest of american culture)
mormons are just peaple like everyone else, complete with all the comon flaws and weaknesses present n the rest of the population, the only notable difrence as a whole is that mormons have a much higher than everage set or ideals that they are trying (somtimes strugling) to live up to.
to put it bluntly, some mormons are assholes, but those assholes do not represent the group as a whole, or the ideals of the group.
and in that way they are no difrent than any other group, culture, religion, subculture or social group in the country or probuly the world.
p.s. one of the most bbasic, "sunday school" tenents of the mormon church is "two wrongs don't make a rite"
witch meens that responding to bigotry or rasism of a minority-opinion in the church (vocal thow that majority may be somtimes) with a difrent but equaly aporent form of bigotry is rong, and i personaly have the same reaction of dismay to see you (a seeminly desent person) fall into the same trap of stupid reactionary thinking that has so often been employed as a way of creating divitions umung gods children. -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Thu, July 3, 2008 - 9:46 PMThank you for your explanation.
Perhaps i should clarify who I am and where I have come from. I was born into the lds faith, a requirement of my family was to go to church every sunday, seminary, and be active in the church. I left the church when i was 20, I am now 33 and still I feel like I am trying to leave the church. Part of me wishes to help others leave the church, but in reality, part of my soul is still stuck in the mormon church, and I want those parts back.
So many of the stories of the golden plates being translated from when i was growing up, so many morals wrapped up in these stories. why not just tell the truth?
“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)"
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Thu, July 3, 2008 - 9:48 PMhometown.aol.com/thejordan...sonal.html
each alternative of how the book of mormon was translated stretches the rational mind -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Thu, July 3, 2008 - 11:52 PMevery religion has some story that is hard to believe, science has a lot of storys that you (you spesificaly) would bot be able to even begin to wrap your head around if you dedicated the rest of your life to doing so, ever read anything about string theory, coliding super strings in the extra universal plane of "the multi verse" ?ever try to do any 11 dinention mathmatics? sounds prety fucking insane to me, man those scientists must be making it up as they go along.
the point is, the mormon church is a religion, an organisation of peaple based around the concept of FAITH.
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE, IF IT DOSE NOT RING TRUE FOR YOUU, THEN FINE. (OOPS LEFT THE CAP LOCKS ON)
maybe some other path will work beter for you, and i wish you all the happyness and luck in finding your path in the world.
and if along the way you find some other peaple who agree with you, who are on the same path as you, then great. i'll see ya in the afterlife and we can debate it ther wer some concrete answers might actualy be availuble.
i respect your belifes and disbeliefes, i'm asking you to give me that same respect.
i'm a mormon, stoped going to church becals seeing bigets and elietist yuppy pricks get leadership positions, and dishonest cocky closminded young men get sent on missions was more than my faith could take at the time., but never stoped being a mormon. i live my life the way god intended, that dosn't meen the way you would like me to live, and probubly not the way the average mormon would reconend i live it, but i pray, often, and i learned a long time ago to distingwish between having a crapy time becals of a member of the church, and having a crapy time becals of god.
if i understand your intent corectly, then you are not fixing anything, you are just becoming the opsosite twin of what you dislike, two rongs don't make a rite.
i know it's hard to separate out in your mind, but maybe you don't need anything from this place, maybe you're just coming here and saying things like this becals you are looking for some stupid pety revenge, or maybe you're one of those peaple who can't wrap around your head the idea that "whats rite for one mite not be rite for everyone" or matbe (this is the one i leen twards with you) you need to just learn to forgive your self, love your self for who you are, stop judging your self and stop blaming your emotional issues on a church and start taking responsibility for your own danm feelings.
if everyone in your life had acted exactly the same and treated you exactly the same, and your life had been no difrent as far as your emotional development only nobody you had ever met was mormon, do you think you would maybe then be able to realise that the individuals who hert you wer responsible for ther actions that they wer the problem and not religion or god?
peaple do some stupid stuff somtimes, say hertfull things , make bad desitions . then some of those peaple use religion as ther excuse for it, and peaple like you buy the excuse and get mad at religion for motivating these peaple to do these awfull things.
but the truthe is that if religion wasn't around they would just come up with some other excuse, sycology, science, patriotism, whatever,
have you ever read anything about the social cercumstances and mental health polisys in urope in the 17 and 18 and even the early 19 hundreds? ever read anything about any of the things that the nazis did in the name of science? every see any documentarys on the mcarthy trials?
stop blaming your sadness and internal conflick on god, and stop pretending that religion is somthing enherently bad or limiting or hertfull just becals the peaple you wer around made it that way for you.
but i don't know you well enuf, i've just known a bunch of peaple who acted like you, and what was under thewr hats that kept them from leting go of ther prejudice and ther bigotry. -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 1:46 PMyou should have told me, I probably would have been a little nicer to you if I had known you were a fellow apostate.
I just want to remind you of a parable/moral that has been taught heavily in the mormon faith:
+you can tell what type of tree you have by the fruits it produces+
If I had a tree that produced the kind of people that even you described, what kind of tree would that be?
Congratulations on leaving the mormon church!! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 3:22 PMjustin. It took one many years to get all the bits back to my soul. But.....at 46, they have all now come home.
I first talked about what the USA come to know as 9/11 way back in May of 1999; just before Mothers day. It was also to be my 40th Birthday. I did not need stones in a hat, too be able to see this.
No the Mormon Church has no right to meddle in politics. Next before you know it. They will feel they have the right to meddle in Australian politics, just because they have a temple or two down here.
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 7:48 PMmissed church this sunday. what did the leter say?
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 8:44 PMare posts being erased off of this topic? -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 8:45 PMoh ther they are, how weird. -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Tue, July 1, 2008 - 8:47 PMi've never been to clear on wether or ot we're suposed to talk about those anouncments outside of church. -
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Re: did anyone walk out of church this sunday?
Wed, July 2, 2008 - 6:34 AMI imagine that since sacrament meetings are open to the public that any statements read there are matters of public record.
And no I didn't walk out on Sunday. As I think of all my ward family as friends and I wouldn't walk out on friends I wouldn't think it appropriate to walk out then. Also, given that I go to church and sustain our profit. I'm also not going to walk out in protest of his (and the rest of the church leaderships) prayerfully considered words. To be honest I am conflicted regarding this topic, but that is a personal thing and such a public display, just isn't how I roll.
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